Episode Transcript
Speaker 1 00:00:02 Hey everyone. I'm Anna Radcliff. I serve as the coordinator of next generation engagement for the reform church in America. Welcome to the reforming podcast. I'm joined with Ruth, who is my co-host here. We are just so excited about our next upcoming episode. I'm gonna let Ruth tell you a little bit about our guest arena, but she was awesome
Speaker 2 00:00:22 Friends. Yes, you are going to love Dorina. I met her when I went to a conference that just gathered a bunch of amazing women from all different types of leadership positions. And we sat together over a delicious in the end, um, lunch, and we got connecting and I learned that she's just filled with so much wisdom and care and connecting her faith journey with running. And so I can't wait for you to meet her. Dorina is an author, a podcaster, a speaker and Bible teacher. She loves people and she love to discover God's glory on lives, unexpected trails. She lives in Fresno with her husband, Sean, and three courageous daughters. Serena has published children's books, Bible studies, poetry, and most recently the devotional walk ran, or I can't wait for you to spend time with her. One of the things I love most abouta is she's really help helping us press into the idea of weariness of what you have reached your breaking point mm-hmm <affirmative> what is it breaking point? What does it really look like to search out God mm-hmm <affirmative> and to process your life with him. And she does this in a very physical way. She goes out there and she runs, and she's just going to unpack so much with us, um, about that.
Speaker 1 00:01:49 Yeah. And if you're, I'm not a runner, Ruth knows that Ruth runs I don't. I
Speaker 2 00:01:53 Do.
Speaker 1 00:01:53 I love it. Um, and, um, I, I just, I was hanging there. If you're not someone who considers yourself athletic, if you're not a runner, um, this is an invitation to really try practicing a new spiritual discipline. And, um, we've heard from a number of pastors and leaders across the United States. Um, I would hearken globally, but, um, we know that people are tired. We know that people are not okay. And, uh, as we step into a season of lent, anticipating the cross and the work of Jesus, just centering ourselves in, in the truth of who Christ is to us today. Um, I just think Dorina gives us such a beautiful invitation to press into hope and to reach for, um, this process of glory. It's really a glory chaser. And I just, I love that. So we can't wait for you to join us on this episode.
Speaker 2 00:02:53 Hi, Dorina welcome to the next gen podcast. We are calling ourselves reforming and our whole hope and posture is that as Christians who are hoping to lean into, um, not just living out a more Christlike life, but also leaning into just what does it look like to live into our world today? We are hoping that as we continue to do that work, we're doing the internal work also. So we are just so glad to have you here with us. Uh, welcome.
Speaker 3 00:03:25 Thank you, Ruth. What a warm welcome. I'm thrilled to be here and excited for this conversation. Thank you.
Speaker 2 00:03:31 Of course. Um, our biggest always starting point is just tell us about yourself. Where are you zooming in from? Because of course we're still doing zoom. And how did you discover this process of running and processing?
Speaker 3 00:03:47 Yes, well, I live in central California. I actually, uh, grew up in the Midwest in Chicago and went to college in grand rapids at Calvin university. But then I have been a California girl for the last, oh goodness, 22 years. I've definitely rooted here. Uh, with my family. I am married to Shawn. I'm a remarried widow, and I can share a little bit about that later. Um, and I have three daughters. My oldest is 15, so she's in high school. My middle daughter just turned 13. She's in seventh grade and then my youngest is 10 and she's in elementary school and I am a writer and speaker. I also have my own podcast eat, pray, run, and I am a running coach. So I think we're gonna talk a bit about that as well.
Speaker 1 00:04:37 That's so good. I'm so excited. <laugh>, I'm also super jealous as someone from the Midwest that you made your way towards California and stayed. That feels like you won at life.
Speaker 2 00:04:49 I, I hope to follow you.
Speaker 1 00:04:50 Yeah, I know.
Speaker 2 00:04:51 Maybe not California, but a weather like that.
Speaker 1 00:04:56 So DOA, can you tell us a little bit about, I mean, you've mentioned that you're a runner before. Um, and you know, I said earlier when we were chatting that I would never run ever unless I was being murdered. Um, can you talk about why running became such a central, you know, part of who you are and part of your ministry?
Speaker 3 00:05:18 Definitely. Yeah. I love that question. Well, I actually, I grew up running. I grew up as an athlete, although I don't think everyone needs to have the path of an athlete to appreciate running. Um, so, you know, I started running when I was in elementary school. I remember racing the boys at recess mm-hmm <affirmative> and like my big eighties hair flowing behind me. <laugh> amazing with my best friend Aaliyah. And that was just like the thrill and the glory of running fast. That came into my spirit when I was a little girl. Um, and then I ended up in high school. I was also a soccer player. And so the soccer coach was recruiting me for his team. We actually did not have a girls team cuz it was a small private school. So he was recruiting me to play on the boys team. But he said one caveat was that I had to run on the track and field team.
Speaker 3 00:06:07 So I didn't really know that much about track and field, but I was like, okay, well he's gonna let me play soccer. And I know I love to run. So that was kind of my invitation into running as competition. And I really felt in love with running my specialty was the hurdles, which is it own kind of, uh, metaphor for life and jumping over life's hurdles. And then also, um, I did sprints, I did the 400 and the relay races and I'm sharing a little bit of that early history in my life because it knit in me this idea that I could use running, not just for my own glory, but for God's glory mm-hmm <affirmative>. And I had the privilege of having a coach in high school who was a Christian. He was a believer, even though I did not go to a Christian school. And so he would often give me scriptures and prayers and encouragement as I would go into my races that really left an indelible mark on my heart. And so then as I, I did not pursue running, you know, professionally or anything like that. I studied journalism and English lit while I was in college. Um, but I started to take up distance running mostly because like, as you get older, running over hurdles is not like the thing that you can do <laugh>
Speaker 1 00:07:26 On
Speaker 3 00:07:26 The weekends. Um, there are a few exceptions of course in the world, but that's not, uh, what I can spend my time with. And I will say that in this season of my life, especially in my mothering, that going out for a run is actually an act of soul care for me. Mm-hmm <affirmative>, it is a place where I get to commune with God where I get to be in creation. Sometimes I intentionally go for prayer runs where I'm praying as I run and I don't get that quiet space in my own home or, you know, kneeling by my bed or something like that. Um, and so that's a, a bit of my history. I also do coach runners. So I coach adults to run, um, 10 K's and half marathons. And then I coach, um, young people right now I'm coaching high school, my daughter's track and field team. So I also see it as this avenue for building community and for discipleship as well.
Speaker 1 00:08:21 Wow. I wanna know what a, this, what a, um, running coach does. Like <laugh> someone yell at you across the, yeah. I mean, let's just lead into that a little bit. So what does the process look like if you're coaching someone, you know, I'm, I've never trained for running before, you know, from start to finish. What does that look like?
Speaker 3 00:08:41 Yeah, that's a great question. If you haven't played a sport before, I think it might sound kind of like scary, like I'm, you know, somebody screaming in your ear all the time. <laugh> um, that's not at all the process, so I'll just walk you through every year. Actually, my husband, Sean and I coach this running team, we raise money, um, for a nonprofit organization in Haiti. And we take people basically from the couch to the finish line, um, to use that kind of idea that I know people talk about. So if I was training someone for say a half marathon, a half marathons, a 13 mile race, 13.1 miles, we would be together for typically 12 weeks of training. And we do this with a group of people. So it's even more fun cuz you get to meet other people. It's not just like a one-on-one type of thing, but we have scheduled out for those 12 weeks kind of a progression.
Speaker 3 00:09:33 And every week, you know, you might do say three runs a week and then you'll do some other types of exercises to build your core and to stretch, do some yoga, that kind of thing. But really what we're doing is we're taking you from ground zero, which is maybe you've never run before, or maybe you've only run a few miles before or a shorter race. We're taking you from those, you know, running a couple of miles on the first run and the second run, you know, doing some things on the track where you're working on speed a little bit and then each week we add mileage to that. And so it's really, to me, it has such a beautiful connection. We see this all throughout the Bible as well, that life is like a race. And so really it's like we're training those people for 12 weeks, but we're also training them in their mental, mental capacity, in their emotions, in their soul so that they can be ready for that final race day. And so I, I think my job as a coach really is to get to disciple them on that journey to encourage them on the days where they're just really not feeling it <laugh> and to cheer them on through workouts. Um, and just to develop that accountability mm-hmm <affirmative>
Speaker 2 00:10:47 Yeah. I, I mean, I resonate with this so deeply because I also, I'm very competitive and I grew up doing sports. I did cross country. I did track and field. Okay.
Speaker 3 00:10:59 Yes.
Speaker 2 00:11:00 I think you're so right. There's something about the discipline and to have somebody walking alongside you that you grow in a way that you just never thought you would. I have experienced a lot of things in my life and I'm pretty sure I am a much better wholesome person day to day because I took some time to run and reflect and allow my body to heal in a way that just I would not have done otherwise. And so I, I'm just going back to, um, you and unpacking a little bit more your understanding of glory and how running has really brought some of that out in you. So first, how have you come to understand the word glory?
Speaker 3 00:11:46 Oh, I love that question. Yes. Glory is one of these words that I've, um, reflected on quite a bit and written about. Um, my book walk run, so is a devotional that is on the theme of running and walking. And so I talk quite a bit about being what I call a glory chaser, and that actually comes out of a sermon that I heard by. Um, now a dear friend of ours, his name is pastor Mitchell Lee. He was the pastor of my husband's church. Uh, he lived in Maryland and Mitchell talked about this in one of his sermons that God designed us to be glory chasers mm-hmm <affirmative> and really understanding that to be a glory chaser. It means constantly being in pursuit and seeking out God's glory. So I wanna differentiate from the glory that's in the world. The glory in the world tells me that I just, you know, I competed in the 100 meters and I got to the finish line first and I get the medal and like props to me, yay me
Speaker 2 00:12:49 All
Speaker 3 00:12:49 The glory to me. But the glory that I'm talking about, the glory that is the Lords is really, you know, the essence of who God is. He is glory. And we as humans get to experience glimpses of that glory every day in a myriad of different ways, we might experience it through creation, through worship, through music, through community, through prayer, even through seasons of suffering, we get to glimpse God's glory. And so when I say I'm a glory chaser, it means that I have my head lifted and looking around in my daily life, where is God at work? How is he moving? How is he showing me his face in the midst of whatever circumstances that I'm facing?
Speaker 2 00:13:37 I don't know about you, but it's been an exhausting two years now. I mean, more than that, I would speak for myself as a woman and as a black person that, um, the last couple years has been exhausting. We've experienced political insurgencies. We've experienced murder of our people on a scale, in a public way that is like no other, um, and we've experienced, um, just human movement and restriction and the lack of empathy and care. So I think I'm finding a really hard to lift my head and look around and be a glory chaser. Will you be able to unpack with us a little bit more? What was that like for you? Mm-hmm <affirmative> what is some of the discipline and practices in the experience that has allowed you to see suffering and, but to hold them complex hope, um, and to really live into being a glory chaser.
Speaker 3 00:14:48 Yeah. I love that you used the word practice because I think it is something that we do need to practice. And I will share a little bit about my journey with this word. I actually, I'm one of those people who likes to choose a word of the year to center her on. And I chose glory seven years ago as my word of the year. That year in 2014, I had no idea what was in store for our family. Um, but a few months into that year, my husband, Eric Lee was diagnosed with stage four, melanoma cancer mm-hmm <affirmative>. And at the time he and I were missionaries in Haiti, we were splitting our time between California and Haiti. Our ministry honestly was flourishing in so many ways. We had so many plans for the year and that diagnosis came as this sucker punch to the gut for us.
Speaker 3 00:15:38 Um, we were absolutely blindsided by that. He was a really healthy guy and athlete a coach like myself, and really, um, like even a nutrition teacher, there was just so many things we were like, how is this even possible? Mm-hmm <affirmative> um, but to just kind of fast forward through that season a little bit, um, three short months later, he went to heaven and at the time I was, you know, basically running this nonprofit ministry in a different country with him, our daughters were ages two, five and eight. So I was a mama of real little ones. And I was kind of like there, I, I kind of imagined myself, like they're in the middle of the field holding this word glory and, and going, what, what do I do with this? <laugh> in the midst of intense and complex grief. Yeah. Mm-hmm <affirmative> and the Lord really was so just tender with me in that season, because that was exactly the word that I needed to hold onto in a time where I felt incredibly alone, where I felt like everything had ripped been ripped from under my feet.
Speaker 3 00:16:40 And I did not know what the future held to daily, get up and to be looking for his glory. Mm-hmm <affirmative> was a practice that I just began because that was my theme for the year. And so sometimes that was, I'll say as simple as doing a sink full of dishes because I no longer had my dishwasher anymore. My husband always did the dishes and listening to worship music and just reimagining that and pivoting that instead of it being this awful chore that I didn't wanna do. And a reminder that my husband was gone, it became a place of meeting with God. It became a place of glory I would sing. And I would like get into watching the dishes, which I hated doing. And it was like, God showed up for me in that simple everyday practice. So that's just one little example. You know, there are other things that for my daughters and me during that season, after my husband went to heaven where we just felt like God showed up.
Speaker 3 00:17:41 And sometimes it was just the, the magnificent way that he painted the sky in the evenings. We went outside every night for the sunset and it was like, God was saying, I am here. This glorious sky is a reminder to you that I am with you. I am Elroy the God who sees you. And even though everything else feels uncertain, my glory is here to usher you through this grief. Mm. So that's Hmm. So that gives you, you know, a little bit of the sense of, of where, you know, the crucible of where I began to learn how to be a glory chaser. Now we're seven years out. I'm remarried. My kids are teenagers. My life looks really different now. Um, but I still feel that daily challenge to chase after his glory.
Speaker 1 00:18:28 That's so good. You know, I'm curious, Darina, there is sort of, you, you mentioned it early on that running had, it has kind of two spaces in your life. One is sort of this process for yourself where you are, you know, really doing some, self- getting out of the house away from children. I have a two year old, so I really appreciate that incentive for running <laugh>
Speaker 3 00:18:51 <laugh>.
Speaker 1 00:18:51 Um, but the other was just this, this idea of community and how community kind of becomes a part of this running process. Um, I think two things, one, we have so many leaders in, in the church in particular right now who are experiencing burnout and I, you know, it's a different sort of grief, but they are in a season of grief mm-hmm <affirmative> and that is isolating and it's lonely. And it's frustrating. Um, can you just talk a little bit about what it looks like to be a glory chaser when you're really going through it? Mm-hmm <affirmative> um, but H how community is directly related to some of that work? What, what did that look like for you during that season, particularly?
Speaker 3 00:19:36 Yeah. You know, that's been such a part of my journey too, because after my husband died, I really had to learn the difference between loneliness and solitude. Mm. And I believe that running really helped me on that journey because honestly, prior to that, I didn't do a lot of solo running, but because it became this quiet space for me, I hungered for that solitude time. And it was a shift that had to happen in my spirit, from the loneliness to the solitude, where solitude is a space where we can commune with God, where we can talk with God, where he can handle our hot mess. We can pour out all of our questions, our doubts, we can, you know, be emotional with him and where he renews and refreshes our souls. And so that's where I see running as being soul care, but a different type of soul care.
Speaker 3 00:20:31 And maybe this is what you're getting at is the community that you can meet when you do something active together. And this can be true in a dance class or a yoga class, or a group of mommies who, you know, go walking every day with their strollers and their kids that when we're moving. And then we are also together moving with other people, I feel like it opens up these doors and this space becomes sacred in a lot of ways. We have conversations that we might not normally have with someone, especially we're not even a culture that talks on the phone anymore. It's like, we, you know, we talk into boxer or Marco polo, or we send people like messages, but it like texts, but that actually moving together, it allows us, I think, to share our souls with each other and to get into those conversations.
Speaker 3 00:21:21 And even if you are walking or running or dancing with somebody who, you know, is not on the same aisle side of the political aisle with you, or, you know, maybe doesn't go to the same denomination of church by moving together in community. In that way. I think it gives us, um, it gives us license and it gives us permission to engage with each other. Yeah. And I've seen this happen on our running teams over and over again. We bring together this what I'll call a Motley crew of people every fall when we are doing this fundraiser for Haiti. And a lot of people join for different reasons. Sometimes they want to get in shape. Sometimes they just have never done a long distance race before. So they're really there for the coaching. Sometimes they're there for the cause because they want to help raise money, um, for this cause in Haiti.
Speaker 3 00:22:12 And what I've seen then is that different groups of people will come together. So we've got, you know, seven year olds out there training with my dad, who's in his late seventies, like literally that gamut of people. And it's so sweet to see the people who kind of pair up and end up training together and how they encourage each other. And then even the people who are not necessarily running every mile together, but who get to just kind of cheer each other on, in the race. I feel it like it's that cloud of witnesses. Mm-hmm <affirmative> and just kind of going back to the burnout too. I, I wanna address this and encourage listeners maybe who are in that space, who they, where they do feel that burnout maybe in leading or in ministry or in mothering, or, you know, being a parent yeah. That sometimes making that conscious decision, like I'm gonna move my body regularly.
Speaker 3 00:23:08 I'm gonna do that three times a week or every day for 10 minutes, take a walk or whatever that, that is actually one of the ways that we contend to our souls mm-hmm <affirmative>. And when I say soul, I also mean like holistically our whole body, our physical body, our spiritual body, our emotions, all of that. And there's, there's even brain science that shows that when we move our bodies, that it allows us to process things like grief. And so even though I didn't really know that brain science, you know, as I was going through the depths of my grief, right after my husband's death running was already a practice for me. So it was like, okay, I know how to run. I'm gonna do that. I'm gonna go out there. Um, one of the things I started doing the year after my husband died is I started trail running.
Speaker 3 00:23:56 So here in central California, we have all these beautiful trails that go through the Hills and along the lakes and the rivers. And so I started going out with some girlfriends, other mommy friends, and that was a whole different type of running for me. It wasn't like being on the track where you're like looking at your time and you're racing and all of that, it was like, okay, I can't run fast because there's lots of Hills and there's lots of rocks and there's lots of challenge. But then to open my eyes and see, you know, these undulating Hills of wildflowers, or to see the water lapping at the shore. And so every time I would come home, I would feel somehow renewed. Mm-hmm <affirmative> I would feel like my spirit had been lifted, even though I was still in this season of grief. And so as I began to notice that, then I started to study it a little bit more. I'm not a therapist, I'm not an expert, but I have lots of friends who are. And so as I've talked to people about the brain science, like that actually dislodges the grief and the trauma in our brains and helps us move through it. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. And to me that's like, okay, God created us for that healing. He created our bodies and our minds for that kind of healing. Mm.
Speaker 1 00:25:06 I love that. I love that. I almost am. I'm thinking of like, um, you know, the Benedictine spiritual practices, I'm like, where is running on that list? <laugh> it hasn't found its way there, but I'm, that's just so helpful. I think, uh, my instincts, when I am super stressed or super, you know, just exhausted it's to sit on the couch and binge something <laugh> mm-hmm <affirmative> um, and so the, just the invitation, not just from, from ourselves, but from God could be you're tired. Come, come and see, come and come and discover me. There's one other piece here, Dar it that I'm noticing. And it's this connective tissue between, um, running and nature. Hmm. And I'm just curious if you have kind of done some, you know, I think there's, uh, there's a time in the place for the Peloton bike and working out in your home, but can you talk about maybe some of the ways that nature has shaped and influenced even just the way your body experiences God, um, you just in, in your faith, you know, how does that translate? Not just from running, but the many other ways that you've come to worship God.
Speaker 3 00:26:29 Yeah. You can probably tell by the way that I talk that that nature and God's creation is something that is just so special to me, it's one of the ways that I experience God. And I recognize that we're all wired a little bit differently, but I believe that getting outside and getting out into creation is one of those ways that we can kind of pivot or change the atmosphere so that we are entering into that space of connecting with God and prayer and healing. And again, it's not really about your speed. You can do this walking or jogging or running or slogging or sprinting or whatever you do. <laugh> mm-hmm <affirmative>, but just, you know, and even living in the city, like I grew up in Chicago, I grew up in the city, right. And I love the city and I could even see beauty in the skyscrapers and see beauty sometimes in like the traffic patterns and you know, the lake along, uh, lake Michigan, where we lived.
Speaker 3 00:27:29 So I think there is just an invitation sometimes even of changing our location mm-hmm <affirmative> and then entering into nature. So I know I, I have the privilege of living in central California, where most of the year the conditions are good that I could go outside gorgeous <laugh> and I don't know how much you know about central California, but we, our hottest months are basically may through October. We have like triple digits for a lot of days of the year. So the wintertime is actually the better time to get out onto the trails running. Interesting. I know that's kind of flipped from the Midwest <laugh> yeah. Please stay inside. <laugh> I know. Well, and I remember going to Calvin and grand rapids, it was like, okay, we're literally walking through the snow up hill to get to class. Like that's not just like some legendary thing.
Speaker 3 00:28:21 So I, I recognize that your geographic location informs this quite a bit, but I do believe that God invites us into his creation wherever we are as a way to connect with him. And I think this is also what was so challenging about the pandemic, depending on, you know, what your situation was, because I still had the privilege of going outside and going running, and sometimes even meeting up with friends, EV like we would run sort of socially distanced so that I could still have that sense of community, that sense of being in creation. And I know that wasn't the case for everyone, especially if you live in really urban areas or if it was, you know, a cold time of the year where you couldn't get out with below zero temperatures. Um, but I think we can be creative. Mm-hmm <affirmative> I think there is this just reminder of our creator when we get out into nature.
Speaker 3 00:29:16 And so you will notice if, for people who read my book, like that is so much what I write about really, I, I'm kind of taking you on this journey with me to, through all the trails and through cities and places that I've run and how God has illuminated different things for me in those places, or even just brought scripture to mind, it's like, I'll be running. And then all of a sudden, this scripture just pops in my mind. It's like, oh yeah, the rivers that run, you know, and I'm, I'm off on this sort of rabbit trail thinking about God, creating rivers and all of that.
Speaker 1 00:29:48 Mm-hmm <affirmative>, I love the way that it just weaves in and out, you know, that your faith, all of the sort of foundations of our faith, right, as you continue to discover the spiritual practices, that really are core to who you are as a, as a person, they really start to come out. You know, I just, the couple of times where you said, yeah, scripture will just come to mind or prayers will just come to mind. All of the practices that you have taken on, they've kind of surfaced up and, and bubbled up to this space of running. I just think that is so unique about you and about, um, us all as individuals, um, that we can find new things about ourselves and about our faith. I just think that's so cool. Um, one of my, kind of other questions that I was wondering about, for some people, they give things up during Lin, uh, that's kind of our way of restricting some of the maybe bad habits, many years, I've given up French fries and it's made it like two weeks <laugh>. Um, and, but what I'm wondering about is, you know, I often encourage people to add something, to add a spiritual discipline, to, to try something different. So put on your coaching hat during it, what would be kind of the, the beginning place for anyone who's listening to this and wanting to add something to their lent regimen? How should they begin?
Speaker 3 00:31:09 Oh, what a fun question. Yes. I think, um, the first step out the door is the hardest one. That's what my husband Sean says all the time. And I think it's true, especially if you have to like get up in the morning and go running, and you're not a morning person, for example, but once you get going, that's where I think God surprises us. And so my encouragement to people, if they wanted to add in a practice, especially with lent in mind, is to pick a small goal, an achievable goal. So maybe you live in a city where there are city blocks and you wanna just say, I'm gonna walk around the block every day. That could be a simple practice that you could add. And then, you know, saying, okay, during that time, while I'm gonna walk around the block, I'm gonna use that as a time to pray for my neighbors or to pray for my family.
Speaker 3 00:32:01 That's one thing that I think, you know, probably everybody could do. There's some, of course there's some exceptions. Um, another idea would be to just say, well, I'm gonna run a mile. I'm gonna run a mile every day, or I'm gonna run a mile a couple of times a week. And to think of that as a spiritual practice, not as a, you know, something I need to do because I need to lose weight or because I need to count calories, something that I need to do to check off the box. It's, it's actually kind of turning away from that attitude of exercise and seeing exercise as an invitation into spiritual practice. Um, so that would be my advice. And I think the other piece of it is having accountability. So even just one friend that you're gonna tell them what you're gonna do, or you're gonna invite them with, to go with, you could be a friend or a spouse, or, you know, a, a child that you know, or grandparent or whatever, and invite them along to do it with you.
Speaker 3 00:33:00 Um, I've seen people on the trails where I run near my home. I've seen people talking on the phone and like consistently I see the same person talking on the phone. And I think it's kind of funny, but at the same time I realize, oh, well, that's kind of a practice that they will go on this walk every day at this time. And I don't know who they're talking to, but they're talking to someone there's, there's an older gentleman in my neighborhood who I can think of, um, who I see him on the phone all the time. And he is very animated. He's talking with his hands and he is, got his earbud in and he's walking and I'm like, oh, look at that. Like, he's connecting with someone. I don't know all the details of it. So that might be something that people could think about. I love what you said about adding a practice. I think sometimes we get caught up into the discipline of fasting during lent mm-hmm <affirmative>. And I actually just wrote about this, that for me this year, I feel like God is inviting me into feasting and that feasting is really feasting on God's presence.
Speaker 2 00:34:04 I love that. I love that. I am gonna write that on my mirror. I know I may, I especially love that too, because as you've been talking, the word that just keeps coming to mind is solidarity. You're in solidarity with your body and ex what you're experiencing. You're in solidarity with nature as you're out and about and paying attention to what God has created. But I think even that means if you can notice the flowers, it means you can notice that your neighbor and you can see them and see other people and step out and, um, create community in a way that allows you to breathe deeper, um, and to just invite more into your life. And so I just, I just love that. I think, um, and more than ever, we are just in need of resting and of seeing lent as a refuge to feast, to rest, to be. Uh, so I'm just, I love that.
Speaker 3 00:35:09 Yeah. It's kind of interesting because, you know, lent trad, it depends on your, um, tradition of course, but lent was set aside as this time between Ash Wednesday and, um, an Easter to think about this journey that Jesus takes to the cross mm-hmm <affirmative>. And even to think about the time that Jesus spent in the wilderness. Yeah. Yeah. I'm actually doing a Bible study right now with some women here in Fresno, California on the book of numbers. It's not the book that most people would study.
Speaker 2 00:35:41 No,
Speaker 3 00:35:41 But it's, it's an awesome study. Um, and we are really thinking about how God is with us in the wilderness. And so if we think about this time of lent as when Jesus really went into the wilderness with the father, there definitely is that imagery of it, of like going out into the desert and being parched and being separated from community. But the thing that also happens in the wilderness and I've experienced this in my own grief journey too, is that we have such a hunger for God and his presence is palpable in that place where we don't have a lot of other distraction. And so I think that that's the invitation for lent, but sometimes we get so caught up into like, oh, well, I'm fasting from French fries. And I've totally done that before, too, that it's like, well, wait, why are we doing this in the first place? Totally. Actually, it's a return. It's a return to being in the presence of God. Mm. To being less distracted by all the things in our schedule and in our world. And to really have that focus, I love that you use the word solidarity that we would have solidarity with our creator. Mm-hmm, <affirmative> what an awesome
Speaker 2 00:36:54 Being glory chasers. Uh, and I think we'll end on that note. Is there like one thing you'll say about your experience of God, as you continue to learn and lean into being a glory chaser that you want others to know?
Speaker 3 00:37:11 Hmm. There's so many ways I could answer that. I think the biggest thing that I want people to know is that God is unexpected. I think we so often want to put God into boxes and in our culture, there's so much swirling about God and about theology. But to remember that it is kind of like a treasure hunt that we get to go and chase after him every day. And it requires this intentionality and that's really what being a glory chaser is all about. We have to be intentional mm-hmm <affirmative>, we can't just stay still doing nothing. Um, and it doesn't mean we, we can't rest. We, we certainly can rest in his presence. It doesn't mean striving and checking the boxes, but that I would go into every day with that posture of where is God at work? How is God speaking to me? And what unexpected treasure is he gonna reveal to me today? It absolutely changes the game, whether we're in a pandemic, whether we are in war, whether we are in personal crisis, whether we are grieving the loss of a spouse in all of those spaces, I believe that we can still experience his glory that way. Oh,
Speaker 2 00:38:29 That's so amen. Yeah. That's so good. DOA, thank you so much for being here with us. Uh, and I am just looking forward for our listeners to hearing this and knowing just what a thoughtful, intentional, and just deep learner you are. So thank you for sharing your work with us.
Speaker 3 00:38:50 Well, thanks for the invitation. And thanks for letting me preach a little bit about some things that I'm passionate
Speaker 2 00:38:55 About. <laugh> yes, always.
Speaker 1 00:39:01 And now just a special word of, thanks. The reforming podcast is brought to you by the reform church in America. We are grateful to Garrett Stier, who is our sound engineer for Erica Piman who's assistant production. And as always, if you have not yet subscribed to the reforming podcast, subscribe wherever you find yourself, listening to us. Thanks. We'll see you again on the next episode of reforming.
