Speaker 1 00:00:05 Hi, everyone. Welcome, uh, back to the reforming podcast. This is the final episode of season one and, um, it's just Ruth and I today. Um, and we're just gonna spend some time unpacking both what this podcast is trying to accomplish, but also remembering together what we learned throughout this last season. Um, so just to kind of start the reforming podcast is really about creating a conversation or beginning a conversation, Ruth and I were really noticing a lack of, uh, spark or even just like a, a feeling of where is this conversation taking place? How, who is starting these conversations, who's having these conversations. And so that really sparked the beginning of reforming and why we wanted to create this podcast together. Um, so this, this last season was really about caring for yourself. And I don't think we knew that it was gonna be so timely <laugh> um, until we started doing it. Did you feel that way, Ruth?
Speaker 2 00:01:15 Yeah, I think the last couple years have caught us by surprise. And when we started, we were like, we really just wanna unpack some of the greatest issues the Christian community is facing today. And we ran into this huge understanding that, okay, we are all facing some sort of burnout emotionally, spiritually, what does it look like for us to take care of ourselves? And in taking care of ourselves, we're taking care of our relationship with God. And in doing that, we're taking care of one another. Uh, and so I, I was caught by surprise, uh, within the synergy of this work, but I also think, again, it, it was very much God led mm-hmm
Speaker 1 00:01:58 <affirmative> yeah. I still have been leaning into do's invitation to consider running as part of a spiritual practice. Um, I just realized today that, um, my processing of grief, which there's a ton of grief that we're experiencing in society right now, um, it's really contingent upon my ability to move my body. And so I've taken up a practice of working out every morning and then not every morning I do the second part, but I will pull up a journal and, and try to process how I'm feeling. And I just am recognizing that for myself. I've never been able to really immediately describe how I'm feeling, even, you know, even right now, I couldn't tell you how I'm feeling, but I can experience in my body, the tension in my neck, I can feel sort of, um, most recently my, my spouse would tell you this, but I was reading a book and there's a ton of grief throughout the book. And I was just sobbing all the way through. And I usually am not connected to characters in that way. And so I kept thinking like, this is something else I'm I am crying about something else <laugh>, but those abilities to find ways to let those emotions out of your body and yeah. Find ways to connect those things has that has been really meaningful. Um, thanks to DOA and her invitation to run.
Speaker 2 00:03:38 Yeah, I think, um, I was surprised by Dina's conversation with us too. Um, I grew up running, I've always been an athlete, uh, but to think that running, centering yourself in some sort of grounded practice within your body can be such a great way of stepping back. And as you name Anna, really just understanding that you are a person, you are a being, and then being a being, which is a lot of beings. Um, you have to be aware of how you move within yourself. I think for us as Christians, we have this concept going on in our head that this all-knowing all purpose. God came to earth and became a human being yeah. To be with us, to experience life with us. And yet, for some reason, so many of us reject our body as part of this worshiping experience with God. Um, and I think having Dorina sit here with us and just help us name that it takes all of who we are to glorify God and sometimes glorifying God does really start with us centering our bodies.
Speaker 1 00:04:53 Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I love that. I love that so much. I'm reminded too, like in that I hear Jill Sweet's definition of hope. Hmm. And just recognizing that hope is not, um, it's not necessarily just a momentary feeling, but it can also be a spiritual practice. Um, and so I just, I'm really grateful too, for her wisdom that when we're in these difficult moments, there are ways that you can really practice, picking up hope and finding ways to honor God recognize God's presence, engage with God's presence. Um, I just, I really love that kind of connection there. I think that's really deeply value valuable and, you know, and two thinking about Kyle and the ways that Kyle was inviting us to put together some practices around discipleship and environmentalism. Oh
Speaker 2 00:06:00 Yeah,
Speaker 1 00:06:01 Yeah. Timely.
Speaker 2 00:06:02 Um, I honestly Kyle's episode was very, um, Juven for me, but also kicked me in the butt to be honest, because I think as a person of color, as a black woman, when we talk about racism and we talk about injustice, I'm like, yes, let's fight against this. When we talk about gender issues, I can say yes, because those are things that affect me. Mm-hmm <affirmative>, and it has a different orientation, but when we bring environmental justice up, I realize I am just as much a culprit of this injustice as my white brothers and sisters. And so it requires me to pay attention to lean in, in a different posture in a different way. Um, but, but at the same time, it goes back to this understanding that I don't live in a world by myself. It's not just about me. I am connected with other people and, and being connected with other people as I care for myself, I'm caring for others. Um, and so I think Kyle's episode was just helpful in making us realize that there's a togetherness yeah. That is required, um, for us to really love God and to love one another. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:07:17 Oh my goodness. I love that you brought us toward a conversation around community and the ways that community is impacted and being impacted. Um, specifically, you know, we're hearing a lot about pastors who are exhausted and leaders who are done, we're seeing a mass Exodus from jobs into other jobs. <laugh>. Yeah. And I think it's easy right now to feel loneliness. I love the idea. Kyle invited us to kind of practice environmentalism as a form of discipleship. And I think what you just named Ruth of this is such a moment of I'm not alone and registering that your connective relationship with the environment and with the world is deeply intersectional with how you love and fight for justice of other people. And I don't know that I have really truly understood that as an act of Christian practice, until we started talking about it here in this space, that is Jesus' call for us to love others and love creation, but in loving creation, you're also loving others. Yeah. It's so cyclical. And it's so communal.
Speaker 2 00:08:39 Yeah. We, we can't imagine doing this work alone and, and I, I think that's super helpful for us because so much of this work feels like it's just us. Mm-hmm <affirmative> I was, uh, recently at a conference in Rockford and part of why they had gathered all of these amazing people together was to remind us that you may feel alone right now in this struggle, but you're really not look around you. Look at the people who are also here doing this work and are struggling alongside you and are, um, raising their voices and moving together, um, in a way that it just allows us to, again, step back and realize that we're not the only ones doing this work by ourselves. And I think that's super helpful. Um, and it really helped us too. At the beginning, we, we unpacked what it means to be an advocate and to really lean into good work.
Speaker 2 00:09:42 And we unpacked some of this work with Earl James mm-hmm <affirmative>. And one of his biggest thing was recognizing that advocacy requires so much of us that we can't do it by ourselves. We have to be in tune with our bodies. We have to be in tune with one another and we have to be in tune with the fact that you, you're not the only one struggling to move something. You're doing it with other people. Yeah. But I think that that echoes all of this season and holds it all together is the fact that we are experiencing so much violence and so much chaos. And, um, as youth workers, as leaders thinking about the future and the right now for young people, it's so important that self care that our emotional and spiritual wealth is steward well, because that is what we're holding onto in moving young people along in a time of just immense grief. And I think spiritual disciplines allow us to grief in a way that is real and grounding and also centers us for the next work ahead.
Speaker 1 00:10:56 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:10:57 Because there's no way we are going to Denter ourselves or think about what it means to be advocates or support our young people. If we cannot do the work within ourselves. Mm-hmm
Speaker 1 00:11:10 <affirmative> yeah. I mean, that's a number one basic foundation of leadership right there. <laugh> you have to lead yourself well, before you can lead others. Um, so I, you know, I think when we, when we look at faith and spirituality, which does it, it is probably one of the number one hits our, our SEO gal. Grace writer tells us that questions about who is God, why is God important, still continue to trend at number one on a Google search. Um, <affirmative> um, which has kind of sparked us into thinking about season two. And what does it mean for us as people who work for denominations, um, to start UN unearthing and bringing to light some of these bigger questions. Um, Ruth and I continue to hear, I mean, we hear all the time, right? That these questions that people, young people in particular, have they bring them into their congregational spaces and, um, they're shut down and, and to AR to just articulate that a little bit, the feeling of them being shut down, it might not even be an intentional thing.
Speaker 1 00:12:24 Um, it could simply be the way that you would dismiss a young person's question. Mm-hmm <affirmative> like, does God exist? Or what do you do with the inconsistencies about biblical passages? Yeah. Uh, what do we do with the God of the old Testament? Yeah. Who appears very, very violent with the God of the new Testament, who is Jesus incarnate, peaceful and dying for the sin of all people. Um, when those questions are voiced, not if, but when, um, and if they're not, if they're not voiced, they still exist. Um, what's important to know, and to, to recognize is that those questions need to be treated like a gift. And so, you know, what, what we're going toward for season two is talking about this faith de deconstruction and what is it, why does it exist? Why does it happen in inevitable and, and inevitably it's related to what we, what I just described. Yeah. I don't know if you wanna add anything to that, Ruth, but
Speaker 2 00:13:33 Yeah, I would say that at the heart of our work is community mm-hmm <affirmative>. We want to make sure that we are people who are wrestling with and asking hard questions so that we are better Christians who are able to lead ourselves and to lead one another. Well, um, so I hope season one was helpful. I hope you're able to pick up some of the tools that season one helped cultivate in you mm-hmm, <affirmative> pick up those discipleship tools. Yeah. Because you are going to need them for season two <laugh> season two is going to it. I mean, it is literally about dismantling some of the things we think about ourselves and our faith mm-hmm <affirmative> and that feel so rooted in who we are, that we have such a hard time, um, examining it with an open heart. Yeah. But I think as Christians, our whole posture should always be, as the softness says, examine me your Lord. Mm-hmm <affirmative> find anything in me that is not of you mm-hmm <affirmative> and take it away from me. Mm-hmm <affirmative>,
Speaker 1 00:14:43 Mm-hmm
Speaker 2 00:14:44 <affirmative>. And if our, if we really want our faith to be a faith of transformation and of legacy and something that we are just super excited and, um, just immensely hopeful that our youth and young adults pick up and carry and make their own.
Speaker 1 00:15:02 Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:15:03 We have to make room in our spirit for Christ to examine us and to teach us to examine our own spirit so that our faith is just a transformed faith. Yeah. And that, I, I think that's what I'm excited about. I'm excited to see the people and the conversations we will have. Um, mm-hmm <affirmative> and not all of it is going to end in a perfectly tied bow. Yeah. Right. Um, but I think, I think that's what our faith journey is about is constantly allowing Christ to examine us so that we can continue to say with as much truth as possible that our faith is a work in process. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:15:46 Yeah. That's so true. I love the, the invitational nature of kind of where we're headed. You know, we also wanna name too that, um, a lot of times when we talk about or hear conversations about deconstruction, my experience has been that it's a lot of artists that are coming out of, uh, reframing of their faith. Um, maybe it's, they've held onto their Christian faith and maybe it's that they've kind of released some of it, um, kind of the most famous one that I can think of right now is Gungar Michael Gungar is one of those deconstructionists. Yeah. And I think what's important for us to just name is that our, the next season, our intention is not to just leave us in a space of deconstruction, but to really also create some tangible practical tools, um, and invite people who have practical tools to think about reconstructing.
Speaker 1 00:16:47 And, um, one of the most common things that we continue to hear is this communal nature of being able to voice the concerns, um, being able to elevate where questions lie, being able to just look at something from one perspective and having someone on the other side of the table from you being willing to say, yeah, I wonder that same thing. It's that feeling of me too? And it's it, it just immediately shores up that space between deconstruction, loneliness, despair, a lack of, uh, identity and isolation, and it immediately restores your hope and fulfillment and, and encouragement to continue on. Um, I just, I, I just wanted to name that. I think that's really important for us to, to recognize.
Speaker 2 00:17:47 Yeah. Yeah. Well, we will be taking a break this summer, but if you want to catch up on season one and all of the amazing things that, and the guests that we've had to just converse with, uh, check us
[email protected] reforming podcast, and you will be able to catch up until then. We will be intentionally building in new content for you for season two. We can't wait to have you back here with us this fall
Speaker 1 00:18:18 As always, the reforming podcast is brought to you by the reform church in America. My name is Anna Radcliffe. I work as the coordinator of next generation engagement, and my co-host is Ruth Lane camp who serves as the next generation engagement specialist, um, as always our special thanks and gratitude, go to Garrett starer for podcast production. And we'd also like to just name a special thank you to Lorraine Parker who has served as the administrative support and the podcast producer in kind of an interim phase, but we are so grateful for her. Um, we could not continue doing this work without her, so I just want her to get a special shout out. Thank you, Lorraine. You are the best. Um, we look forward to seeing you in the fall for the reforming podcast, make sure to subscribe to our channel as a way to get the newest and latest episodes until then enjoy your summer.
